The rise of the Great 25man Social Guilds

April 26, 2010

This post was inspired by: Still Going to Run 25s? | World of Matticus.

Blue Poster Nethaera released the a groundbreaking statement today on the forums about the future of raiding in Azeroth. Read the full thread here. A lot was said about the future structure of raiding, but the points that interested me the most are:

  • Heroic modes will all be toggled on and off per boss like we do now in ICC.
  • Ten and 25 man raids will share the same lockout period.
  • The same loot will drop of ten man bosses as drop off 25man bosses.
  • Amount (not ilevel) of gear dropped is scaled up for 25mans to compensate for more people in the raid.

While I get that this is supposed to not affect the viability of 25man raiding, I don’t really see how we can avoid human nature. Like water choosing the easiest path downhill, I can see how this news will endanger the future of 25man raiding. The news is good for the clique raiders, and the small groups of exclusive buddies and even for the lucky few who made friends on their server before the new Dungeon Finder Tool shredded the traditional way you met other gamers in your community. They will all now have their 10mans and don’t need a larger group to get their kills and their loot. But what I foresee for the rest of us that try to cling to the old way is endless 25man pugs which eventually dwindle into the ten-man snatch-and-grabs much like we see in VOA 10’s today.

i WILL heal you and you WILL like itFurthermore, I don’t know about you… But I work much harder as a healer in tens than I ever have had to do in 25’s. Unless you over gear the instance, I find many of these fights are tough for a disc priest. Combine it with “hard modes” where you have another single-target  healer like a pally and you are looking at a quick trip to the respec lady in IF if you want to keep your raid spot. Furthermore, the pace is more hectic and less enjoyable. With less room for error, and less opportunities to have a mana break or take your eyes off the screen for a nano-second if there is an emergency or whatever, I foresee a faster burnout pace than I did with the 25man raids.

Lastly, 10man raiding doesn’t have the social epic feel that the old 40mans do. Nor do they have the cool large-group of buddies feel that the 25mans do. With less reason than ever to get along with various personalities for the good of the group (and the gear drops, lets face it), its going to be the death knell for a lot of us. I know I will be less inclined to stick around in a 25man guild if there are jerks in raid and Ventrillo clowns like we put up with in 25’s. There have been plenty of times I thought about shopping for a 10man that gets the job done in half the time, but was stopped for the reason that the gear and content isn’t as cool as the 25man level stuff. And you know what? I bet each and every Raid Leader, Guild Officer, and many of us regular old raiders, etc., have had the same thought a time or two ourselves.

On the other hand, I can see how casual and social guilds will be MORE viable at 25man level. 10mans are simply harder as a result of less class diversity when you are pushing progression. There is always someone in every 25man guild that is there because we like them more than their skills. You know who I am talking about. The lovable but not as savvy players that are tucked away in the corners of our guilds. Hanging with us, BGing with us, and being awesome in guild chat, and filling in the raid spots when attendance is low. I foresee there being more room in 25man raids for this kind of player than in 10man progression guilds. Maybe Cataclysm will see the rise of the great social 25man guilds.

Waiting to see how this will pan out.


  1. […] 25 man guilds might have more opportunities for raiding as well, as icbleu points […]

  2. I think you’re right about this. It’d be great to see social 25man guilds have more involvement in raiding. Especially since 10mans are going to be more competitive and edging people out of raid spots.

    Personally, I hate healing 10mans as a discipline priest. I think it will be more enjoyable in Cataclysm with the healing changes and new abilities, but I’d be devastated if I was limited to 10man content in the current setup.

    25s are fun – even if there’s drama – and there’s way more flexibility for a discipline priest. Plus there will be more room for that not so savvy player in a 25 man.

    Ah! I really like this idea. It could make raiding a lot more interesting and balance out the organization/commitment needed for the 25man.

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